Jisun Sunny Fisher is the author of The Bodhi Blueprint and this episode dives into her journey. This is Dr. J’s story and she is resilient.
Trigger Warning: The Global Resilience Project provides an open space for people to share their personal experiences. Some content in this podcast may include topics that you may find difficult. The listener’s discretion is advised.
About the Guest:
Jisun Sunny Fisher a licensed psychologist, best-selling author, and happiness coach.
Turns out, Jisun also comes from a long line of shamans, so she’s holding down the fort for awakening spirit-seekers and soul-sparks to navigate this life with inspired courage and take honest actions to live a life that matters.
She helps spirit-seeking visionaries, entrepreneurs, and creatives who want to overcome the fear of the unknown/unpredictable + the patterns of self-sacrificing so that they can live their most epic, transcendent life-mission.
Jisun is obsessed with re-creating the distorted love-maps we were given so that we can learn to unapologetically and without shame, love ourselves and teach others to do the same.
trigger warning, the Resilience Project provides an open space for people to share their personal experiences. Some content in this podcast may include topics that you may find difficult, the listeners discretion is advised.Blair Kaplan Venables:
Hello friends, welcome to radical resilience, a weekly show where I learned Kaplan Venables have inspirational conversations with people who have survived life's most challenging times. We all have the ability to be resilient and bounce forward from a difficult experience. And these conversations prove just that, get ready to dive into these life changing moments while strengthening your resilience muscle and getting raw and real. Welcome back to another episode of radical resilience.Blair Kaplan Venables:
It's me, Blair Kaplan Venables, and I'm here with Dr. J, also known as Jisun Sunny Fisher. She's an amazing woman who I met through an online program, and we developed a beautiful friendship. I'll tell you a little bit about her. And it's gonna be an interesting conversation. I'm really excited about it. She's a licensed psychologist, best selling author, and happiness coach, we all need a little bit of happiness right now. Actually, I'll need a lot of it. She helps spirits seeking visionaries, entrepreneurs, and creatives who want to overcome the fear of the unknown and unpredictable and patterns of self sacrificing so they can live their most epic, transcendent life mission. What I love about g7 is that we connected and we're I was so excited about her book, and she's like, I will send you a copy because we were going to meet up when I was in New York. And so she sent me a copy so long ago, but I, I live with depression. And it's funny because I, I've been balancing out my meds and just really working on my mental health. And lately, I feel like I'm in a good headspace. And this weekend, I had this huge urge to clean my office. And my one of my like, defaults to like managing my depression, anxiety is just putting things in piles. So not only a way so my office was covered in piles of boxes and piles of packages, that I just didn't have the energy to open. And so I start opening the packages. And I found Jisun's book. And I was so excited. Because I was like, Oh, my God, this is perfect. Because I'm chatting with her on Tuesday. And, you know, we were just talking offline. And Jisun You know, asked me like, like, why? Like, why, like, kind of like, what, why, and I find that when I'm really depressed or anxious, like something that's hard for me is opening mail. Hmm, yeah, it's not just bills, it's just mail. Like, I don't know what it is. But anyways, I think this is a good place to welcome you to the microphone.Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Thank you so much for having me and for opening up the space and creating the container to have this conversation. And Blair, I've got to share with you that I would have never known that you struggled with depression, because of how much output you create. And when you show up, your presence is real. And a lot of times people struggle with depression or anxiety, their presence is non existent, to be honest. So the fact that you were doing what you're doing, you are creating what you're creating, you're connecting in the ways that you have been, I've gotta hand it to you like, that is amazing, you are such an amazing person. And the quote, unquote condition of depression, I believe is a signal from whether you want to think of it as your heart or your soul space, your spirit, your higher self. It's a signal from this bigger part of us that saying, hey, I need you to pay attention to something. Yeah. And I know that a lot of times medication is really, really important to help create that window of opportunity for us to be able to function to be able to open our mails and say, What do I need to look at otherwise, and a lot of times, we, we can't do that, I get that. And I think a lot of times, I have clients coming to my door with this preconceived notion that they're a victim in this, that they don't have any control and how they feel. And that this is something that they will struggle with for the rest of their lives. I'm not saying life has to be happy all the time. I'm not actually happiness is a very big misnomer. And I just want to applaud you for what you're doing with your life. Given how you've been experiencing really difficult emotions.Blair Kaplan Venables:
Thank you so much. Jisun And that really does mean a lot and you know that reaction you had is that you would have never, you know, guessed, it's very common to anyone who knows me. And I just want to share a little story with you But this is more about you this interview. But I will never forget this. And I think I've talked about it on this podcast. But my parents divorced when I was seven. And my dad's lived with addiction, and he was in and out of my life. And it was just very traumatic. And I was starting to I shared my emotions, I express emotions through writing, like writing at home writing poetry writing in my journal, and my emotions were coming out in assignments at school. And so the teachers called my mom in and said, We think Blair's depressed, and because I'm so happy and like how I show up. My mom's like, now there's no way and like, that was the end of the conversation. And I was writing about it in my diaries talking about like, who am I Blair, Kaplan, the depressed girl, I guess we'll never know. But like a little Blair. It's true. I do have depression. And I think like my functioning with it is like, I only show up, I show up when I can. And sometimes it's when I'm minorly depressed, or I'm fully functioning. But if I'm like, in a really dark place, like at the end of my media tour, like when I was supposed to meet you in New York, in June, I was in a very dark place. And I went off Prozac, and I kind of detox from it because I was doing medicine work. And then I was not ready to be off of it. Because I'm in this grief vortex. And I finally was able to pull myself to make an appointment, and I'm now on Zoloft. And my it's like, the chemicals in my brain are balanced. And I can show up and I'm functional. But it was a very difficult spring and summer for me. Wow. Like I just opened your mail. And it's mid October. And you send that in like, Yeah, but wow. And, and so like you wrote a book. And you know, I think something I left out in your, in your bio that I want to touch on. I want to know how weaves through your book because I literally opened your book two days ago, like the package. So far, I have not read it. But I'm really excited to read it. But in your bio, which is in the show notes. You talk about how you come from a long line of shamans.Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Yeah, that was a huge surprise. But like,Blair Kaplan Venables:
do you feel like you have tapped into that? And like, how does it play into your world? How does it land in the book?Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Yeah, so why am just scratching the surface of the little bit that has been shown to me. And I know there's so much like, the ice glacier, there's so much under the surface that I can tap into. But I come from a family, I grew up in a Christian home. So we were all about going to church every Sunday, right? If you in any way deviated from what the quote unquote church taught you, you were gonna go to hell. So I spent the majority of my childhood living in fear that I'm either doing something wrong, or I'm not being a certain way that I needed to be. And over the years of growing up, I've come to learn that there is this inner voice that's always told me the God that you know, doesn't create fear, like doesn't exist, based out of fear, like he wouldn't have created or they wouldn't have created you or me in a place where they said, you need to do this a certain way in order for you to be quote, unquote, you know, good enough to go to heaven or hell. So anyway, I'm going to fast forward a little bit, but I grew up in a Christian home where fear was a huge tactic to keep us in check. keep us in line, which didn't work very well for me if my parents and I, by the time I was 18, I probably got arrested like two or three times like I was the rebel child, whyBlair Kaplan Venables:
you get arrested? Oh, my gosh, no, no, thatJisun Sunny Fisher:h of spirituality I did since:Blair Kaplan Venables:
i i relate because that's how it was in June. Well, like in June, I wasn't like, oh, I want to die. Like I wasn't suicidal. But I was like, okay, like, I've accomplished things. I've been on a billboard. I've changed people's lives. Not having kids and like software died to die. Like that's fine. Like, it wasn't like trying to die. But I was like, yeah, like, okay, cool. And yeah, like, I can't imagine you being like that either.Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Yeah, yeah. So the thing about emotions blur is, from my perspective, having experienced, almost like the whole spectrum, I would much rather experience the really high highs and really low lows, than to not feel anything at all that sense of disconnect, or or void is so painful to me that I would much rather be in quote unquote, pain and deal with doing air quotes right now, the negative emotions than to not feel anything at all. And I think that's where the book comes in. Because when we think about when we think about this world, there are three only things in this world glare that keep the world spinning. It's love, power, and death. And the three human fears that we can tap into are related to those things directly. So there is a fear about love, a fear about power, and then a fear about the death of the ego. And each fear as to human needs associated with it. And each human need needs to be balanced and integrated in order for us to, I don't want to say Master, I know you, I use that word in the book. But in order for us to go into a surrender type of flow with what life is to understand how to experience fulfillment. And when we choose to everyday take a step towards what feels right or real to us, then we're taking steps towards fulfillment and happiness that happens as a byproduct. So it's not that we want to pursue happiness, it doesn't happen. It doesn't work that way. Happiness is just a byproduct, to say, Hey, you're on the right track layer, or hey, Blair, you're not on the right track. We need to pivot here.Blair Kaplan Venables:
That's interesting. And like, what do you think? Like so you know, you talk about ultimate freedom, right with with these three elements, like what does freedom look like?Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Yeah, I think for everyone is going to be slightly different. My definition of freedom is what I call inner authority. It's when I know that I trust and accept myself before anyone else. So two of the human needs that we have human needs. It's the need to be selfish. But we also have a need to be selfless, right? In our society today, we like put up on a pedestal this need to be selfless. And we think that being selfish is a bad thing. But when you know how to do both, it's self first. If you put yourself first everything else clicks into place, like you have to put yourself first. Yeah, with that, yeah.Blair Kaplan Venables:
But it just, I was just gonna say it's so important to put yourself first because you can't pour from an empty cup. And I've watched people put everyone else before them and then die. Like, their whole point of being on this earth was to be of service to someone else. And that's not a way to live.Jisun Sunny Fisher:
No service to someone else happens, like happiness as a byproduct. So the way that I learned this was through my own personal experience with my dad. So when I came to the States, oh, but I was about seven years old, and I came here with my mom and my younger brother. My dad, Dad had been here for about a year and a half or so before us and when we got here, I just remember how excited my mom was at this notion, this idea that you know, her kids are going to have this education life was going to be great. And she went from being a stay at home mom to working 18 hour days she would go to work at like seven in the morning. Come back home at 839 cook us dinner, we would eat dinner at 930 10 o'clock. And she was doing this to put food on the table keep a roof over our heads, but also to keep loan sharks at bay. And I just remember slowly learning what it meant to have a relationship with a caretaker, a dad, who is who has an addiction to gambling. And remember, when I was 12, or 13, he would come and ask me for money. And I remember how it felt that sense of like, I had a sense of pity, but a sense of guilt, and then a sense of responsibility that just didn't, it felt icky, you know. But all throughout my childhood up until just a few years ago, my mom stayed with my dad, because she had this belief, which was a limiting one that she needed to make sure her kids came from a good home. So she thought that if she would leave my dad, we would come from a broken home, and we wouldn't be able to get married, or we wouldn't be able to have good lives, etc, etc. But a couple of years ago, she finally got to, I'd have no idea what came over her. But she finally got to the point where she looked at my dad, and she finally said, and she's done this a couple times, but this time, she meant it, she put her foot down, she said, you either choose your family or you choose your addiction. And at that point, Blair, my dad looked at her, and I was in the room, and I just I remember watching them. And he was like, well, that I'm gonna choose my addiction. He didn't call it that. He left. And if anyone were to ask me how mad I was upset I was how resentful I was of my dad that he left his family, he turned his back on his family to choose his addiction, I would actually tell you that it's not something that I feel a negative way towards him about, in fact, it's probably the thing that I'm most proud of him for. Because he chose the thing that he thought was his passion. So it's not my place to tell my dad, you know, because he believed he believes he really in his heart believes it's his life purpose to be a professional poker player. And if that's your passion, I want you to choose yourself first. As soon as he chose himself first, he finally released my mom, my brother me from the restraints that we had, my mom never had friends when she was with my dad. Now all she does is going out with friends. As you know, she continues to work, my brother doesn't have to worry about taking care of my mom, he doesn't have to worry about, you know what his friends are going to say or whatever. Box cage I want to say cage that we felt we were in because he my dad decided that he thought it was his duty to be a dad and a husband. That cage was no longer there. As soon as he said, I'm going to put myself first. So everyone else's lives, including his is better because he got to choose himself first and not something that he thinks is his duty, or responsibility.Blair Kaplan Venables:
Yeah, wow. That's a powerful story. And such a, I guess. The word is, like interesting and progressive way to look at that situation. Because he called it an addiction, but he doesn't probably believe that it is.Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Right? He believes it's just life purpose. And maybe it is maybe it's his purpose to become a poker player.Blair Kaplan Venables:
Who are he is a poker player, but you mean professional? That's a great point. Yeah. Um, what influence do you think your parents had and your path to becoming a psychologist?Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Wow. There's this notion, I've come to learn that what we believe are our parents or caregivers, greatest shortcomings or weaknesses, is where we need to carry the torch. So my mom is way too selfless, like she puts everyone else before she puts herself she was the type of mom who worked 18 hour days to make sure her kids had this life where they weren't bullied for lack any lack thereof. And she wouldn't buy herself a pair of socks, right? Like she had holes in her socks to make sure her kids had what she thought was needed. So I know my mom's greatest shortcoming is that she believes she needs to put other people first. My dad's greater shortcomings is that he points fingers at everyone else for his life circumstances. And Phil's shortcomings put together have taught me over the years that I need to carry the torch now, where I am not just sharing or teaching but embodying this notion that we have to put ourselves first and that starts with this awareness and connection to who I am inside. So when I think about my parents and their shortcomings and where I want to carry the torch and I think about why I'm a psychologist is really funny ask that question because I truly believe I'm a psychologist right now. Because I wasn't carrying the torch. So I went to college, checked off psychology as my major sat down probably The year three, maybe at the beginning of year four with my career counselor and she sat me down, she looked at me, she called me back, she was saying, What do you want to be when you grow up, and I went, I had this, like, my heart sank into my stomach, because I didn't want to make a commitment. So I said, I don't know, I'm just gonna keep studying. So I went and got my master's, two masters in psychology. And then even after those masters, I said, I still don't know what I want to do. I don't want to commit to anything. So I kept studying and got my PhD. At the end of my PhD, there was no way I could say I'm gonna keep studying, right? I just pursued, I just kept taking one step forward. But each step that I took forward from there was because I chose to put other people first, I chose to say, well, this is what's quote, unquote, expected of me, not just by my family, my not by my culture, but society at large. Like if you go and get a PhD, you better do something with it. So I just kept going one step in one foot in front of the other and doing what other people thought I should be doing, instead of actually sitting down to think about what it is that I want to do, what I why I'm here my mission.Blair Kaplan Venables:
I think if you would have asked yourself those questions at the beginning of your like, post secondary education, your path would have been different.Jisun Sunny Fisher:icate without the hundreds of:Blair Kaplan Venables:d they're like in hundreds of:Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Yeah, so you can find my book on Amazon, or you can actually contract me down on my website. It's body philly.com P od h i fully.com. Those are the two main ways to find me now i Thanks to your nudging. I actually got myself on social media. And that was huge for me, Blair years. Thank you. I didn't want to be seen, you know, and you were right there when it was time for me to make that commitment and that decision to say, You know what, I deserve to be seen, I deserve to fully express myself in the way that I know I want to, without any regard for any type of shame or guilt or expectations of what I'm supposed to look or sound like and you were right there when I was ready. So thank you so you can find me on Instagram to its voting blehBlair Kaplan Venables:
I love it. I love that you're on social media, because you have such an important message because like traditional people, like you know, this society that we're told that you know, to go to school, get a degree, you know, like you have that training, you're a doctor, but you also have the history of shamans. Yeah. And this whole beautiful like metaphysical side to you. And you marry the two and I think that's really cool. I think it's a really beautiful bridge for people who are new to the spiritual side of things. So listeners out there, you know, please connect with Jisun. All her links are gonna be in the show notes. Before we wrap up, you know? What advice do you have? For people who are trying to feel free to feel happy? Like what is your piece of advice? How do they start?Jisun Sunny Fisher:
Oh, such a great question. Honestly, I think those of us who are struggling with either feeling stuck, not feeling free, wanting to be happier, we're there because we're afraid to look at what we're ashamed about, or what we're taught to be ashamed about. And all those things that we call our shadows are skeletons in the closet or the wards. They're not things to be ashamed about. It's things to accept and appreciate about who you are. This, I think it leads me to, if you can adopt a mindset that it's not about being vulnerable, because I know vulnerability with Brene, Brown has like blown up, the idea of being vulnerable shares the notion that we give the power away for someone else to reject who we are. But if we don't, if we accept ourselves, then there is no opportunity for anyone else to reject who we are. So then we're not really talking about vulnerability, because vulnerability tells us we have to give that power away for someone else to reject us. But then we're talking about this notion of transparency. If I accept myself, there's no way in hell that you have any say in whether or not I'm accepted or rejected. So I think I want to share that. If you're feeling stuck, if you want to feel freedom, start there. Ask yourself why you're in the space of wanting to be vulnerable versus being transparent.Blair Kaplan Venables:
Yes, I love that. And like, I am the queen of transparency, like I can't help it. And that's such beautiful advice, because you're taking away the power for other people to label you and you're in control that way. And that, you know, that's a really great first step and I really appreciate you your expertise, your book that I opened in the mail this weekend, and for you taking the time to share your wisdom with our listeners. And thank you to everyone for tuning in to another episode of radical resilience. Remember, it is okay to not be okay. You're not alone. You don't have to go through the hard stuff alone. We're here for you. You got this, you are resilient. Thanks.